Use of commanders?

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tags	Use of commanders?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 2 12-Dec-07 20:07	Tags : None Hi, I'm very new to the game, so this may be very silly I've played 15-20-ish games now, lost most of them, but learning a bit along the way and having fun. Playing almost exclusively marines for now, I seem to have had most success with just lots of grunts and a healthy dose of grenadiers. Whenever I've gone for a varied selection of units, that seems to have just made my army weaker. What's the point of actually investing in a commander, when three grunts seem to pack much more firepower and cover a wider range of options? Sometimes, I've benefitted from adding a sniper or a medic, but rarely does it seem to be worth more than just massing grunts. Any tips on how to make commanders in particular worth those 3 points?
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RotWng	Re: Use of commanders?	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 360 12-Dec-07 20:53	1. Have you faced tanks? With the high armor of an AI, 3 grunts shots will do little damage, while a single hit from a commander can take a good portion of the health down. Grenaders can do the job against a tank-heavy machina squad, but having a commander or two, and a couple snipers will help a lot. 2. For the same high damage reason, commies can open wall sections that grunts wouldnt even scratch ... thus commanders are great to sneak through buildings and open unexpected routes for surprise attacks ... or to dig a way for your grenades that can land to new spots where your opponent thought it would be safe to be. I often deployed without one, but if I expect machina, or on some maps where there is a lot of destroyable buildings to sneak through I think they re worth the price.
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Duke Garland	Re: Use of commanders?	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2809 12-Dec-07 21:09 Blutkind	err... what he said. 3 grunts might be a good firepower but they cannot sneak through flank. They cannot one-shot-kill. They have less armor and thus explosions harm them more. Balanced deployment has all units in it. 'naders and grunts are of course backbone, but you'll need medics to heal and snipers for vision and a commander for tough stuff. A common deployment for 20FP on map with good amount of cover might be 1 Com, 3 Nad, 1 Sni, 4 Gru, 3 Med, 2 HQ. You might want more snipers for map with open spaces, more grunts if you're expecting spawn etc. LSN Name: Duke Garland Alliance: Rock'n'Roll Suicides (captain) Location: Ukraine, GMT+2 Specialist: League of Ordinary Gentlemen (captain) The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight, he will fight - Rudy R.
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RotWng	Re: Use of commanders?	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 360 12-Dec-07 21:40	So you like grenaders ... why dont you sign up for the grenader-is-the-only-unit-you-can-deploy-...-well-except-for-2-HQs belt? There is no challenger at the moment! p069.ezboard.com/fcodogam...1&stop=703
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smart bunny	Re: Use of commanders?	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3879 12-Dec-07 22:30 One by one, the penguins take my sanity	Somewhat off-topic but I like to mention it to new players if I remember... have you found the vision and light tools yet? If you press V on the keyboard you'll see a bluish area on the map showing what the currently selected unit can see. This is useful if you want to check how far your sniper can see compared to your grunt for example - helpful in working out whether your opponent's units can see you or not If you press L then the whole screen lights up, which can be very useful for checking if doors in shadow are locked or unlocked and get a clearer picture of the trees etc. As to your commie questions then I again agree with Rotwang. I very rarely deploy without 1 unless I know exactly what I'm up against (eg some of the belts/compo's have specific deployment conditions). Rookies are very often surprised by attacks from an area they thought was blocked off because they didn't consider a commie blowing a hole in a wall somewhere Simply the worry of what a commie is capable of is enough to make an opponent wary, and the 1-shot kills are fantastic when it's you that's getting them! Even if they only badly injure a unit then that unit then has no option but to run back to recover (unless you take it out with a nearby grenade in the meantime ), so you've taken it out of the equation for a round or 2. Also do not underestimate medics. They are pretty hopeless as frontline troops, but if kept reasonably close to the front line then you can get your troops healed up and back out into the action far more quickly if you have 2 or 3 working on them than if they all have to queue up for 1 medic. One more basic tip.... don't just stand still shooting. If you do you'll get picked off by snipers or by more experienced players who keep their units moving around. Take a shot then move somewhere else behind some cover, then pop out again to have another look. Oh and 1 more very useful tip... whilst units are moving they have 90 degree vision, 45 each side of the direction they face. Whilst stationary they have 360 degree vision, so try to make sure your units are stationary just before the turn ends to give you the maximum info you can get Welcome to LSN, it's a very friendly forum and you won't be ridiculed for asking questions If you click the picture of a scanner in my sig it will take you to Count Zero's excellent website which is an absolute mine of information on LSN. There are lots of links to competitions, strategy guides etc and if you click the images in the top right corner you've got the map HQ where you can view any map you like, and the AI takes you to the unit stats so you can see how far an AI can see compared to a drone etc ......anyway, I'd best stop waffling now
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Jaques Cartier	Re: Use of commanders?	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5097 12-Dec-07 22:51 French? Moi?	Besides all the info already mentioned, Commies can be used to shock your enemies by showing them in one front and perhaps making a shot or two from there to gain attention there. This will force your opponent to react to it, and most people and newbies will react to it quite heavily. They will usually send some units after the commie as it is quite dangerous enemy anyway... While your enemy does this, you just quickly reposition your commie from behind the lines, and you have created a working decoy! One use I tend to use with them is suppressive fire from afar. Either to drop down enemy unit's cover for my snipers to hit them, or to shoot in the general direction of enemies to keep their head down in that area. Sure a hit there can be pleasant too, but don't expect too much if you shoot from the other side op the map. Also, that armor of commie is suprisingly good for a marine, and therefor they can take suprisingly lot of low damage hits... Just don't push your luck too far with them or you'll be three points behind. LSN: Mr Cartier League:High Elite GMT:+2 - A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His might upholds the weak. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked. DTWDoG
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valkea	Re: Use of commanders?	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 794 12-Dec-07 23:35 Registered User	Well, to give a somewhat different point of view. I'm an experienced player and something of a commie hater: I think they're possibly the most overrated and overdeployed unit in LSN - and the version 3.09 stats that JG published about 1,5 years ago do bear me out (after which commies were given an extra hit point since they had a negative score against every other race, mechs included). I do deploy them quite often - one commie is useful for several reasons, which people have covered here - but I do not consider them must for a succesful marine squad and quite often leave them out if I think I can get more use from having more of the other units. For instance: 2 snipers, 3 grens, 2 medics, 1-2 HQs, 6-7 grunts is a perfectly viable 20 FP marine deployment (IMO). One of the snipers can cover the door making role - and you have an extra grunt: yay! -> Manpower, cannon fodder, map control I used to deploy only 1 commie in Master of Mankind (a 40 FP marine vs marine tourney), and I do think I got some use from the extra snipers/grunts/naders against more commie heavy deployments (I think 3 was pretty common) I'd really only consider two commies, if I was pretty sure I was facing mechs. Grunts and naders are the meat and potatoes of marine play, while commies are only somewhat useful. That's my opinion, I know a lot of people disagree. LSN NAME: valkea LOCATION:: Finland, GMT +2 ALLIANCE: Rogue Element. "Scanners scan, missiles spam, the rest is mopping up."
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Tharg	Re: Use of commanders?	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1672 13-Dec-07 02:47 Registered User	IMO : Vs Marines, Mech or Grey, commies are great for one shot kills. Against equal or better players you can keep other units relatively safe then pop the commander out every now and then with a well placed op fire and you may score a kill and take the lead on points. Even if this doesn't work directly, the fear that commanders create can be an advantage anyway. Against worse you can simply create havoc. Vs spawn they're pretty useless, except perhaps against Splatters. Edit : And maybe against spitters and spikers I guess they could be useful against them too. Edit 2 : As Rotwang says, they're also great against Tanks. You have to do it right, but trust me you'll never look at commanders in quite the same way after the first time you manage to take a tank out from full health with one in two turns (or less).
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Hero Boy	Re: Use of commanders?	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3404 13-Dec-07 16:14 BeltBoy	I agree that Commies are over-rated and will never deploy more than one of them unless it's 30FP. However I believe having 1 is very useful even just from a psychological point of view. A Commie force firing at an enemy location really puts the sh*ts up your opponent and even just showing one in an area will slow your opponent down and attract fire. Also the 1 shot ability can really change a game and the healing ability of Marines means that a heavily wounded Comm can return to the battle front line in 5 or so turns. I would make the argument that Grunts are the most over-rated Marine unit. It depends on your style of play but typically I'll only have 2 in a 20FP game. My usual deployment is 1 Comm, 2 Snipers, 3 Naders, 3 Medics, 2 Grunts and 2 HQ. Although I will change it to 4 Naders and 1 Sniper if it's a Nader friendly map. You don't need lots of Grunts to defeat Spawn...
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tags	Re: Use of commanders?	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 14-Dec-07 08:23	Thanks for all the replies! I never realized they could blast holes in walls, and I have indeed had most trouble against mechs... this gives me a few more things to consider
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Jaques Cartier	Re: Use of commanders?	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5097 15-Dec-07 21:48 French? Moi?	Remember that that's holes in regular walls, not in the metal walls! Metal wall's windows are breakable, tho. Oh, and commies are also one of the rare units that can destroy the power globes (the orange ones when active, black inactive). And they'll explode quite sweet when they're active too! LSN: Mr Cartier League:High Elite GMT:+2 - A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His might upholds the weak. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked. DTWDoG
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Astrafiammante	Destruction!	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 710 17-Dec-07 00:35 Registered User	I agree with most things said above (although I'm a recent convert to the power of Grunts, and I'm less of a Grenadier fan than most, I think), and would add that not only can Commies blow up the power globes and shoot holes in some walls, they can also reliably shoot out windows, forcefield controls and door controls. Usually not a big deal but on some maps ("Compound", for instance, on which I'm playing a Marine vs Marine game at the moment), vital.
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Indricotherium	Re: Destruction!	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5777 19-Dec-07 15:54 Budda on an anthill	Yeah, Commanders are the redecoration kings. Their ability (the only one of all the Marines) to survive a point blank splatter blast can be handy too. Lots of good stuff here. LSN:Indricotherium, GMT-5, League:Elite, Alliance:Doomed, Specialist:L.O.G.
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meBan	Re: Destruction!	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1 19-Dec-07 22:16	When I first started playing, I really liked Commanders. But after a while I realized that they weren't as powerful as I thought (in fact all the big, powerful units--AI's, saucers, missile tanks etc weren't as powerful as I first thought they were). So I stopped using them. I used mostly grunts with a few genaders, then lots of genaders with few grunts. Now that I am getting more experience, I like commanders more. One reason, that has been mentioned, is the one shot kill. When you are playing a good player you often only get one shot. Then their unit scampers of somewhere. The other thing I like about commanders is being able to clear terrain. Most marine players use genaders as their offensive unit (their most offensive unit?). With commanders you can clear out hiding spots so the genaders have to expose themselves.
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srwforest	Re: Use of commanders?	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 77 21-Dec-07 06:06	nice game tags I had 1 more hq left and that medic that finished you off was my last unit.
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fatgreta1066	Re: Use of commanders?	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 18 21-Dec-07 23:35	"Metal wall's windows are breakable, tho" I thought so, I'm playing a game right now thought and can't figure out how to do it - any help? It's the second campaign mission as marines, if that matters.
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worto03	Re: Use of commanders?	#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3442 21-Dec-07 23:48 Kick me officially if I smoke	try getting a commander to force fire at a window (purple line) or I think object fire will do it too (orange line) worto.
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Jaques Cartier	Re: Use of commanders?	#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5097 22-Dec-07 10:01 French? Moi?	Grenade near enough of the window oughta do the trick too. Snipers can do it too, altough they're not 100% certain to deal with it in one shot. LSN: Mr Cartier League:High Elite GMT:+2 - A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His might upholds the weak. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked. DTWDoG
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VaultBoy	Re: Use of commanders?	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 27 22-Dec-07 19:44	I think about any marine unit can break a window. I'm pretty sure I've used a medic (probably took like 7 shots) to break one.
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Jaques Cartier	Re: Use of commanders?	#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5097 23-Dec-07 00:00 French? Moi?	No, it's not possible. Grunt and Medic has power of 5, and the window has power of 9. As max damage is +50%, maximum damage grunts and medics can do is 7-8, wich is still less than 9. Even XTs, who have power of 6(max9) can't break windows, as they can't exeed the window's strenght. This is according to Terrain Guide in Count Zero's link scanner pages. LSN: Mr Cartier League:High Elite GMT:+2 - A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His might upholds the weak. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked. DTWDoG
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Use of commanders?

Use of commanders?