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Re: Greys | #1 | ||
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I think that the issue that you highlight is....
greys need you to play a particular way - and this is where they get tricky to balance - played properly they are a very hard proposition to play against. If they aren't played optimally they are rubbish. So you can have the same map, same deployment - played by someone who understands how greys work he is virtually invincible; played by your average player he is thrashed easily. So you end up with players who simply don't get greys - unlike the other races you can have a go and get better with them. With greys if you don't get them, then you end up getting thrashed easily, and then get put off playing them. So now you get to the balancing... how do you balance a faction that is either unbeatable or rubbish depending on how they are played? |
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Re: Greys | #2 | ||
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Re: Greys | #3 | ||
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Re: Greys | #4 | ||
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Re: Greys | #6 | ||
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Re: Greys | #7 | ||
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A consequence of Greys special playing ways is that you can't afford to do costly mistakes. Once a unit lose it's shield, a small breeze can kill him/it easily because they don't have armour. This is why you must plan about everything several turns in advance, or you are asking for trouble. And that trouble more often than not can be stopped only with one or two Sentries which only goal is to warn and delay about the attack.
I have a good example of this in the Malt tourney I'm playing right now. I deployed Machina and encountered Greys with a Saucer in a 30FP game. I got surprised and smashed to the left in the beginning of the game and I'm estimating my chances to win to be quite slim. However, my opponent left the right side completely open and I sneaked a few units there to flank them and fire at the Regen hided behind the bunker my MTs can't reach. Agressive scoutism gave me the info that it's the only regen of my opponent team, so if I manage to down the two Guardians shield and destroy the Regen then I will turn the game around and estimate my chances to win to be pretty high... All of this could have been prevented only by one or two Sentries sacrificied to delay my units a little (Machina units are pretty slow...). That's a great example of what some Grey specialists mean by "play more agressively with Greys". Not really because you need to be so agressive that all your units are attacking and that you get to crush you opponent... But more agressive by taking the chance (or risk) to forward some units to make sure you cover all possibilities. Even with the flank attack, I still estimate my chance of destroying the regen to be pretty slim tough. I would really need to ground shot some missiles next to the regen, but the stupid Grey "upgrade" which prevent players from plotting orders outside of the playing field prevent me to do that. |
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Re: Greys | #8 | ||
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What I was saying (before I deleted it) is although I think the balance is fine, a good greys player on the right map can swing the balance in his favour more than a competent marine/spawn/mech player can. For this reason Greys get downgraded as an unbalanced race but short of downgrading them to the point of utter weakness that wont change. In other words...dont mess with them any more, it wont make any difference.
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Re: Greys | #9 | ||
Quote:could someone explain what is this and why was it done? (to restrict warps over the edges i understand?) Quote:you're absolutely right! |
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Re: Greys | #10 | ||
Quote: You used to be able to plot firing orders outside of the playing field. This, in practice, allowed you to tune aim to about any degree you could imagine just by extanding the line as far as you needed to. However, once it been found that you could also plot warps to run past obstacles in the same way, it been made so you can't plot those firing orders in the blackness around the map anymore... |
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Re: Greys | #11 | ||
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well, actually you still can plot such orders (and i am plotting them in games time after time). And warpers orders are auto-moved to the last edge point.
try it in hotseat. |
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Re: Greys | #12 | ||
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How do you do that? I tryied everything I could think of, I even tryied to hold the fire order with the mouse and slide it to the black area but the plots never registered... If I try to plot a movement, the plot stays at the furthest spot it can go but refuse to go further in the blackness...
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Re: Greys | #13 | ||
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Yikes. Could this be something which worked in a previous version of the client but not in the latest version? Maybe there is an advantage to be gained in not installing the latest one?
![]() ![]() |
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Re: Greys | #14 | ||
![]() it's just the common firing orders i've got latest version installed Of course, it doesn't work for warpers, as like as for the movement waypoints. |
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Re: Greys | #15 | ||
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Re: Greys | #16 | ||
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works for MT's the same way as for other units.
Of course, if you were not trying to do Terrain Fire. You cannot use terrain fire where no terrain is. |
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Re: Greys | #17 | ||
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That's what EoF is trying to do Duke, terrain fire. You'll note that if you plot a floor tile terrain fire far from the unit in question, the missile will just about always hit the floor before the end point. So to terrain fire at floor tiles at the edge of the map you needed to plot your aiming point far off the map edge.
This change leaves the Spitter and Nader as the only units who can still bypass edge of map walls and such, as their projectiles can be heaved into the darkness just past the wall termination and will explode 4 seconds later regardless. |
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Re: Greys | #18 | ||
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Re: Greys | #19 | ||
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Yes, I was trying to terrain fire... And it nearly costed me the game. A very lucky misfired missile ended up just where I needed it to go.
So, it's only unpossible to achieve with MTs? Why that? I find this very bad, it remove a lot of options to MTs firing at the edge of maps... |
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Re: Greys | #20 | ||
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SB, it's all ok with OpFire or ForcedFire or Direct Fire.
(i'm afraid i've just created a mess, after misunderstanding EoF's words. On the other hand, he could have written from the beginning that it was about TF...) |
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